Do Extra-Terrestrials Exist?

[JoStream]

It's been a debate for decades, and many argue that there is evidence of alien lifeforms. I do think it is possible, but I have had no personal experience that would confirm it :lol:

There is a lot of literature on alleged sightings as well as the nature of secret facilities such as Area 51. What do you guys think?

[Ryan]

I know that it exists. Just because we haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. How many of you have seen a molecule or an atom? And nobody disputes the existence of atoms.

I know how to essentially prove the existence of intelligent life other than own through a highly complex mathematical formula, which I can write out if you are so inclined.

[JoStream]

I know that it exists. Just because we haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. How many of you have seen a molecule or an atom? And nobody disputes the existence of atoms.

I know how to essentially prove the existence of intelligent life other than own through a highly complex mathematical formula, which I can write out if you are so inclined.

That's not really what I meant. Personal observation or experience can be more convincing than unsubstantiated other observations. If scientific evidence exists, then that's a different story.

On that note I would be interested in reading about how you can mathematically prove intelligent life :wonder:

[Ryan]

On that note I would be interested in reading about how you can mathematically prove intelligent life :wonder:

You asked for it.:cool:

N=R* x Fp x Ne x Fl x Fi x Fe x Fc x L

N is the number of civilizations in the Milky Way capable of communicating with us.

R* is the average rate of star formation in our galaxy

Fp is the estimated fraction of those stars that will have planets

Ne is the estimated average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets

Fl is the estimated number of planets that develop some form of life

Fi is the estimated number of planets that go on to develop intelligent life/civilizations

Fc is the number of planets that develop the ability for interstellar communication

L is the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space

Now, most of these numbers are estimates and change often, but lets use the most generally accepted figures.

R* = 10/year

Fp = 0.5 (50% of all stars formed will have planets)

Ne = 2 (2 planets per star will be capable of developing life)

Fl = .5 (50% of those will actually develop some form of life)

Fi = 0.01 (1% of those will go on to develop intelligent life)

Fc = 0.01 (1% of those intelligent life forms will develop the ability for interstellar communication)

L = 10 000 (lets say on average those civilizations send out signals for 10 000 years)

So..

N = 10/year x 0.5 x 2 x 1 x 0.01 x 0.01 x 10000

N = 5

So the Milky Way has 5 civilizations capable of interstellar communication at any one time. Aside from us that leaves 4 others.

If you want to extrapolate to get a figure for the entire universe just multiply N by the number of galaxies in the universe (about 100 billion), because research has showed the Milky Way to be a fairly average galaxy.

I hope you have a good calculator because mine cannot do something that big.

[saltysurprise]

I know that it exists. Just because we haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. How many of you have seen a molecule or an atom? And nobody disputes the existence of atoms.

I know how to essentially prove the existence of intelligent life other than own through a highly complex mathematical formula, which I can write out if you are so inclined.



Oh this I gotta see:rolleyes: Your mathematical equation only shows a probability. We can apply that to anything. Including the existence of 'pink elephants' in my room at night:drunk: And those I've seen! Many times.

Perhaps unicorns existed. Perhaps not. No one has found one yet though. You bear the burden of proof with your silly University philosophy. Every one knows Atoms and Molecules exist smartass. We wouldn't have ever had an Atom bomb without them!:rolleyes:

5 little letters. L.O.G.I.C.

There is only one answer to the query.. Maybe.

[Ryan]

Exactly. Logic says, to me anyway, that there are just too many stars for there to be nothing else out there. We spend all our time looking for places which are Earthlike, but seem to miss the fact that just because we developed on water bound planet doesn't mean all life needs to.

[saltysurprise]

I know that it exists.

Exactly. Logic says, to me anyway, that there are just too many stars for there to be nothing else out there. We spend all our time looking for places which are Earthlike, but seem to miss the fact that just because we developed on water bound planet doesn't mean all life needs to.

Logically I can't argue that there is a chance. And I totally agree.

But to claim that you KNOW???:stop: You don't know, and neither does anyone else.... That we know of:wonder:

And to compare aliens to molecules is just plain dumb.

[Ryan]

And to compare aliens to molecules is just plain dumb.

How so? Have you ever seen one, have you even seen an alien?

Now I'm not one of those crazy Roswell believer, personally I think that is a whole load of crap. What would the US have to gain from hiding it? Especially now that the cold war is over.

I see the scientific proof in the sheer number of stars. To say that there is no life on the imperceivable number of stars out there is a very close minded approach, similar to all those who doubted the existence of atoms for the first 100+ years after John Dalton proposed the idea.

They were proven wrong, and in time the doubters of intelligent life forms will be as well.

[Harakimi]

I believe that there is life somewhere out there. I believe there is intellectual life somewhere out there. The space is so HUGE that it goes beyond our poor humans imaginations. Sometimes I've felt frustrated and think my head would explode when I've thought about why this all exists? What is going to be left if we take this space we "know" away? Emptiness? Or what was there before the space? I feel my brains jamming again...

[EIR Loe.307]

If I'm not mistaken, they have found microbiological remnants on Mars. If that is the case then there is ABSOLUTE proof of life. Not so much "intelligent" life. I don't believe that that exist even on this planet. :lol:

I agree with Salty that the formula and all it's estimates can only do just that, estimate.

I ALSO agree that any logic would suggest that there is FAR too likely other intelligent life out there somewhere. Have I ever seen proof, no. We're here, if a meteor killed the dinosaurs then maybe some of Earths life goo got tossed into space like my...........in socks, and that goo may have traveled across space and landed on a planet with the right conditions and maybe there are humans on another planet that are trying to figure out if we exist. :rolleyes:


This actually might be what I go back to school for. Astrophysics/Astronomy :rolleyes::thumbsup:

[JoStream]

I agree with Salty that the formula and all it's estimates can only do just that, estimate.

Oh this I gotta see:rolleyes: Your mathematical equation only shows a probability. We can apply that to anything. Including the existence of 'pink elephants' in my room at night:drunk: And those I've seen! Many times.

Exactly, the equation is a probability, but not proof. It is likely that there are five civilizations at a given time, but not certain.

Hehe, how come you get 'pink elephants' in your room :lol:. I want a dog :p

[saltysurprise]

Hehe, how come you get 'pink elephants' in your room :lol:. I want a dog :p

Probably too much:drunk::drunk::lol:

[DanicaRules]

Personally, I dont believe there are. I honestly believe that what people are seeing is actual aircraft that is hard to recognize due to darkness, cloud cover, weather, etc. I also believe that other sightings are space objects in orbit, like satellites, etc. For example when I saw the shuttle and space station move across the sky a couple weeks ago, if I didnt know they were gonna be visible, I would of wondered what it was..:confused:

Other sightings could include, weather balloons, flares, birds, etc. But I feel the majority of sightings at least in the USA are secret military aircraft that the public doesnt know about it. So these fit the definition of a UFO..Unidentified Flying Object. Its flying but no one can identify it because they dont know about the military's planes. Many topsecret aircraft that came out to the public like the SR-71, F-117, B2 Bomber Im sure were all mistaken for UFO's before their existence was made public. It fit a lot of eyewitness descriptions...black, quiet, wing-like, etc. Even a simple F-16, F-15 were a UFO at one time.

[Harakimi]

Ufo sights are different thing than believing that there is someting out there. But yeah I think these ufo sights of past 50 years (since roswell or such) are just bs, and if I remember correctly, most of them are spotted in the states. What is weird that Aztecs (maybe those, Ryan correct me if I'm wrong ;) ) had these tales of "golden cities" landing on the earth from the sky and disappear soon after. Spanish concistadors tried to find these cities but never found em.

[Ryan]

Well reports of mysterious flying objects are as old as time themselves. There exist images of flying saucers on cave paintings made over 40 000 years ago. Many ancient sightings can be traced to known astronomical phenomenon, such as comets and meteors. Other unexplained phenomenon were often taken as religious signs or omens, such as reports of a flying saucer at the baptism of Christ. Although I have not heard of that Aztec report. I'll have to do some research into it. (Xmas project anyone:thumbsup:) I have read one interesting account from 16th century Nuremburg which reported a battle in the skies overhead. And there were the so called "Foo Fighters" during WWII which were reported by all sides in both Europe and the Pacific.

And the number of sightings prior to events in the late 40's and early 50's, make it questionable to say say nothing is happening, although the way in sightings became "cool" in the period following WWII subtract from any attempt to apply rational critique. Anything which could a reasonable find is immediately cast in with the heap of crap reports.

[EIR Loe.307]

I would have to agree. UFOs are one thing but the possibility of life elsewhere in the universe is something else. I'm still undecided in the UFO dept. I mean if I throw a rock in the air and you don't know it's a rock it's a UFO to you. It's possible that there COULD be real Alien UFOs but it seems that this day in age there would be some radar evidence. Not to say that such evidence couldn't be covered up but who knows. I guess it also becomes a religious question. Many religious people believe that we humans on earth are the only thing in the universe etc. Nevermind the scientific probability that we aren't. I'm not religious and I don't think that we are the only thing out there. Unfortunately we can get past the moon (maned) to find out.

[Radar]

Somewhere in the universe then my answer would be yes. Visiting earth and and having contact then I would have to say no. As for Roswell, I think it's just a top secret milatary base and it's best that we don't know what goes on their.:confused: